Comments on: Zookbinders Newsletter Ruffles Feathers

By: Matt

Matt — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 04:26:00 +0000

I am one of those $1,500 photographers only because I am just starting out. I have been raising my prices every year and hope to get to the $2,000 level by 2011. Those of your charging $3,500 and higher had to work your way there in order to charge those prices. From what I am seeing, 75% of brides have budgets that don’t venture North of $3,000 at all. Which means that I have to shoot more weddings in order to make a living while those charging much more can shoot less. If you are honestly having wedding profits of $150,000 and are struggeling to make a living, then you need to make some changes in how you do things or hire a clever accountant. Most people will not see the difference between a Zookbook and a Photobook Plus and so on. If you are spending tons and tons of money on little things, I can tell you that most brides wont see the difference. Unfortunately Craigs List photographers are focing higher end photographers into getting creative with prices. The fact is, very few photographers actually make a great living in this business and 30,000-50,000 is about all your going to get.

By: Jeff Kolodny

Jeff Kolodny — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:07:56 +0000

“The key is to repackage your services to include image files with a basic album order at a competitive price of $1,500 and make the same profit as you did at $2,500.”
This can’t be done! So instead of making $2000.00 what do you make $1000.00 Maybe 1200.00
If you really tried to cut you expenses. You can’t stay in business like that. The big problem is that clients come in and want to see everything. If you show them a photo book and a Zookbook they will want the Zookbook for the photo book price. If you don’t give that to them they will shop around and keep shopping until they find someone who does.

By: Pareaddit

Pareaddit — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:56:52 +0000

True words, some authentic words man. You made my day.

By: DWF » Blog Archive » Oops There Goes Your Upsell

DWF » Blog Archive » Oops There Goes Your Upsell — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:30:59 +0000

[...] look at our recent article on Zookbinders ruffling photographers feathers and listen to their CEO say that we should be offering super cheap [...]

By: Jean Valentin

Jean Valentin — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:14:07 +0000

There is nothing wrong with evaluating your costs. I believe it’s wrong to lower your quality in order to lower your prices.

By: Mark Andrew Higgins

Mark Andrew Higgins — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:42:03 +0000

I’m glad that I passed on Zookbinder as my album company for my business.

By: Jeff Mason

Jeff Mason — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:25:14 +0000

Mark’s, comments referring to “waste”, “non-value added”, and implied “value added” are Lean Business Process terms. It sounds to me like they have undergone some internal process improvement studies to address the same economy and changing industry pressures that we are all feeling. If they have done this, good for them. All of our businesses can benefit by us taking a hard look at expenses and the efficiency of our processes and workflow, it’s just good business practice.

I think, as others do, that Mark needs to stay away from price theory comments about others’ business. The only cost element in our pricing decisions that he knows anything about is album cost. To comment on a price point for what we can and should be charging our customers is irresponsible. We are not making comments about what Zook should charge for their products…well, until now. We couldn’t, we have no idea what it costs to run their business.

Mark’s suggestion to work out of your home to reduce overhead is just stupid. Many of us do operate residential studios and though it’s true that many costs could be reduced, it’s not an option for many nor is it desirable. I wonder if Zook could run their business out of his garage? Come on, Mark, you are addressing PROFESSIONAL photographers.

He says that Zookbinders goal is to help professional photographers. Next time write an article about how to pull studios together to agree not to be shoot and burn. Better yet, write an article for brides describing the satisfaction they will get 40 years in the future when they can hold a print or an album and as they flip through the pages tell their grand children who the people in the pictures are and what what it was like back then. Now THAT’S value added.

-Jeff

By: abbyrose

abbyrose — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:40:43 +0000

i agree with all the other commenters – this advice is terrible. Even my lowest package, with no album, is $3800. I simply don’t understand how anyone could make a living shooting $1500 weddings…..

By: Brad

Brad — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:47:43 +0000

Michele, you are correct that some are content to not do an album. Which is another good reason to NOT lower your coverage fees. If you are basing your profit on selling “product”….and that “product” goes out of favor…so do your profits.

I for one, love creating the images…..a lot more than doing album design, so frankly I could be quite happy if I never had to design another album and deal with the brides going back and forth…
just sayin…
bb

By: Krista Photography

Krista Photography — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:39:07 +0000

I literally just read that article and was appalled! Glad to know I’m not alone.

By: Michele Stapleton

Michele Stapleton — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:30:40 +0000

I’m finding fewer and fewer couples want albums. I took my lowest package, removed the album, put in the high resolution files as the only product, and raised my profit by $250. Know what? It sells and I’m not upset about “losing” the album sale.

By: Sam

Sam — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:15:39 +0000

Anyone who is telling photographers that they should include a package with files and an album for $1500 is absolutely dead wrong. You can’t make a living off of that, as people have already stated, and for someone to set themselves up as an “authority figure” of sorts and then pass around that kind of information.. Ugh. Either this guy is completely ignorant of how this industry works and how taxes and cost work, or he’s intentionally trying to thin the herd by giving advice that will put people out of business. Either way, I hope that’s the last bit of advice he doles out.

By: Brad

Brad — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:11:25 +0000

Oh and one more note…

How about taking your own advice sir….

There are lots of labs offering a similar product with 1-3 day turn around at half the price of zookbinders. Mark, in order to better compete with these bind and burners, you need to cut the price of your albums in half. Thats the only thing thats different about your company and all these bind and burners right?? Cut your costs so that you can sell your albums for 250 and still make the same profit you once did…

Gee let me hold my breath while that happens….

By: Brad

Brad — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:07:18 +0000

I think this shows just how out of touch Mark is with the photographers he supposedly serves. Clearly…there are lots of craigslisters offering cheap services. That DOESNT MEAN that they are any good…at photography, business, marketing, customer service..the full monty. There is a reason why most of us ARE ABLE to command the prices we do and a reason these guys CAN’T. To say cut your prices to compete with these guys is ignorant. These so called shootnburners CANT COMPETE WITH US, on any number of levels…ie photo skills, pp skills, marketing skills, insurance, backup, experience, customer service…again the full monty.

He also completely ignores the affect the economy has had on all of us….sure many photogs are down in the past 18 months…..gee what other signifcant factors might that be attributed too…..get a clue. We arent down because of a bunch of craigslist shoot n burners. They will impact the lower priced photographer who dont have the skills to compete for the better brides no doubt. But the advice should have been…

“Hey guys, you are getting extreme pressure from these shoot n burn craigsliters…so you’d better hone your skills in all facets of the business if you want to be able to maintain your current pricing structure.”

IMO, all of you should really think twice about who you want to “partner” with.

By: David

David — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:45:23 +0000

Or the alternative is to take good enough pictures and market well enough to justify $2500+ weddings. . .

Agreed with Liana, I would trust the PPA industry-wide survey more than a vendor-specific survey.

Also, a note to ALL vendors. . .why not keep records of who your clients are and more importantly who they were!! I used to use Zookbinders and switched two years ago. . .I wonder if they have any interest in why I use another album company or what it would take to get me back!

By: Fundy

Fundy — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:20:19 +0000

I’d have to respectfully disagree. $1500 is not a price point that you can make money at unless you are doing 3-4 weddings a weekend (as people have stated).

Is Apple lowering their prices because you can buy computers for $400? Or smart phones for $50? No.

You have to price yourself in the market, market yourself to that market and make it work.

The smartest people in business say “never follow a trend.”

We’ve raise our prices and had our most profitable client/sale ratio ever.

Lowering prices and working harder for the same dollar just doesn’t make sense. I’d rather work smarter.

Fundy

By: G.E. Masana

G.E. Masana — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:32:04 +0000

Interesting to note that we don’t see zookbinders dropping their price from $700 for an album to $150, true?

By: liana

liana — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:25:47 +0000

Most photographers need to make annual sales of around $150,000 to make a salary of 30-55k per year. (Per PPA’s Studio Financial Benchmark Survey). Think about this. If we’re shooting weddings at 1,500 or even 2,500 we’d have to be doing 2 or 3 each weekend in order to make ends meet. I do agree we have to be leaner with our packages, but devaluing what we do to compete with the $500-1500 shoot and burn crowd is NOT the answer in my opinion. We need to educate our market on what they’re getting for a $500 shooter vs a seasoned pro who actually needs to make a living from photographer. I’m grateful to have products like Zookbinders that I can offer to clients at a lower price point and still make a great profit, but I don’t see how this model is viable long term to drop prices.

By: Paul Meyer

Paul Meyer — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:19:44 +0000

Mark makes very good points…… it’s best to read them and then apply his logic to your individual case. If the shoe fits, then you’ll have to wear it.

His observation about film numbers and digital numbers is dead on. I have shot both film and digital and his conclusions match my experience. People only need a few more images than they used to,but they are different images. No more brandy snifters, now they want spot color and grim faced fashion/passion.

By: Tim Coughlin

Tim Coughlin — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:06:39 +0000

Very interesting, but I’ll pass on lowering prices. There is more to survival than lowering your prices to keep down with your competition.